Maria Angelidou:Product Lessons Leading Facebook App Monetisation Team to Billions in Revenue |E1210

Intro 0s

• Promotions to the next level should only occur when an individual has consistently demonstrated their ability to operate successfully at that level for a long period of time 8s.
• Premature promotions can be detrimental to the individual as they will be compared to a group of people who are already performing well at the next level 17s.
• Maria Angelidou is a guest on the podcast, and it is her first time appearing on a podcast 36s.
• Maria is excited to be on the podcast and thanks the host, Harry, for having her 40s.
• The host, Harry, is also excited to have Maria on the podcast 34s.

Joining Facebook 44s

• A pivotal moment in joining Facebook occurred in 2013 when attending an alumni event for the Boston Consulting Group, where the person had worked many years prior, to congratulate a friend who had made partner 1m13s.
• The decision to attend the event was almost not made due to a lot of work, but the person's husband encouraged them to go, and it was there that they met an impressive woman who was a director of product management at Facebook 1m38s.
• The woman spoke passionately about her job at Facebook, sparking interest and curiosity, and she invited the person to visit the Facebook site, which led to a series of interviews 1m58s.
• After the interviews, the person received a job offer from Facebook while driving home, just 15 minutes after leaving the headquarters, which was impressive due to the speed of the decision-making process 2m35s.
• At the time, Facebook had around 3,000 employees, with a very small product team of less than 100 people 3m4s.
• The person's starting title at Facebook was product manager 3m11s.

Transition From IC to Manager 3m14s

• The transition from an individual contributor (IC) to a manager is significant, as a manager is responsible for the outcomes of their team and must do everything in their control to mitigate risk and ensure the team delivers on its commitments 3m31s.
• When transitioning from IC to manager, two key things change: the manager is no longer only responsible for the product they're working on directly, but for all products their team is working on, and they're also responsible for the people on their team, including understanding their weaknesses, development areas, and strengths 4m1s.
• The traditional view of career progression, where a brilliant IC is expected to become a manager, can be skewed, as some people may not be suited for management and may excel as ICs 4m41s.
• To address this issue, PM archetypes were introduced, which allow ICs to progress in their careers without necessarily becoming managers, and can go all the way up to VP on the IC track 5m48s.
• There are three PM archetypes: Captain, Entrepreneur, and Specialist, each with distinct characteristics, such as managing complex projects, bringing ideas to life, and having deep expertise in a specific domain 6m8s.
• The Captain archetype excels in managing complex projects, requiring a central strategy and the ability to manage multiple teams executing on that strategy 6m12s.
• The Entrepreneur archetype is skilled at bringing ideas to life, getting teams inspired and motivated, and iterating on an idea to get it to product-market fit 6m38s.
• The Specialist archetype has deep expertise in a specific domain, such as integrity, growth, or machine learning 7m10s.
• ICs may feel pressure to become managers, but it's essential to recognize that not everyone is suited for management, and that's okay 7m26s.
• Good product leaders need to have general management skills, which include a strong product sense and a strong business sense, enabling them to manage a portfolio of products, distribute capacity and resources, manage towards a healthy P&L, and drive business goals, not just product goals 7m41s.
• A key aspect of a product leader's role is to manage towards a healthy P&L, which involves making decisions that drive business goals and impact the company's bottom line 7m59s.
• One of the biggest needle movers on Facebook's P&L was the ads monetization engine around video, which was a major focus area for the company 8m8s.
• The development of the ads monetization engine around video was a challenging project that required significant effort and resources, and was a key area of focus for the company 8m18s.
• Facebook has a heavy feedback culture, where employees receive direct and frequent feedback from many directions, which can sometimes be conflicting, but ultimately helps to push employees to calibrate and think critically about the feedback they receive 8m45s.
• The heavy feedback culture at Facebook is not a sign of a badly run company, but rather a great school that helps employees develop their skills and learn to navigate complex situations 9m14s.
• To succeed in a company with a heavy feedback culture, employees need to learn how to calibrate and think critically about the feedback they receive, and decide which feedback to lean into and which to ignore 9m28s.

How To Prevent Feature Creep 9m34s

• To prevent feature creep, having solid design guidelines and a design system is essential, as it allows teams to develop consistent components across the product 9m38s.
• A design system provides frontend components that are ready to use, preventing teams from reinventing them and ensuring consistency throughout the product 9m57s.
• Developing clear tone of voice guidelines is also crucial, as it ensures the product communicates consistently across different surfaces, creating a cohesive user experience 10m6s.
• Consistency in design and tone of voice is key to preventing feature creep, as it creates a unified and polished product that feels consistent to users 10m16s.

Science vs. Art in Product 10m19s

• Product development involves a combination of science and art, as relying solely on science would result in less diversity in outcomes among companies striving for product-market fit 10m31s.
• The science aspect of product development is crucial, as it increases the chances of success, but it is not the most important part 10m48s.
• The art component of product development is vital for achieving breakthrough success, and its absence would hinder the attainment of such success 11m2s.
• Intuition plays a role in product development, and it is necessary to balance intuition with data-centric decision-making 10m23s.
• Companies that successfully achieve product-market fit often have a mix of both science and art in their product development approach 10m39s.

Speed vs. Quality in Product 11m3s

• When considering speed versus quality in product development, many people prioritize speed, especially in the early stages, but it's possible to achieve both speed and quality simultaneously 11m4s.
• The assumption that everything is operating at an optimal level is often incorrect, and there's usually room for improvement in terms of talent, processes, and tools 12m3s.
• A graph illustrating the relationship between speed and quality was drawn, showing that faster pace typically results in lower quality, but it's possible to achieve both speed and quality by improving the team's talent, processes, and tools 12m41s.
• The factors that enable a team to go faster and build better products can be bucketed into three major things: talent on the team or adjacent teams, how they get stuff done, and the tools and systems they use 13m27s.
• Having the right talent, working in optimal ways, and using the right tools are essential for achieving maximum performance in both speed and quality 14m1s.
• Improving these factors can help teams overcome the inverse relationship between speed and quality, allowing them to go faster and build better products at the same time 13m9s.

Common Reason Why Companies Fail: Talent, Process or Systems 14m7s

• The most common reasons why companies fail today are talent, process, or systems, and it often depends on the company and its specific circumstances 14m7s.
• Typically, there are opportunities for improvement across all three areas, and it depends on who built the company and their level of expertise in building systems and teams 14m13s.
• The middle aspect, process, is often the one that breaks down, referring to how people get stuff done in product teams 14m33s.
• Building process in product teams is crucial, but it's essential to strike a balance between initiative and process, as both extremes can be detrimental 14m38s.
• Having a company with no central process can lead to chaos, conflicting efforts, and slowed progress, while having a company that's all about process can lead to a bureaucratic environment that drives away talented employees 14m58s.
• Companies tend to do better when there is a minimum amount of process, and the process is a means to an end, such as helping people work faster or ship better products 15m42s.
• Any process that doesn't contribute to these goals is a waste of time, and it's essential to be diligent in preventing the organization from becoming overprocessed 15m53s.

How To Do Product Reviews 16m8s

• Product reviews are crucial for helping teams ship better products, and the way to measure this is often different according to various leaders and companies 16m8s.
• Two to three hours a week are set aside for product reviews, which are decided through both pull and push ways, including staff meetings and team requests for discussion 16m22s.
• The pull way involves discussing priorities and other important topics in staff meetings, while the push way involves teams requesting discussions for help with decision-making or trade-offs 16m31s.
• Only people who need to directly contribute to the discussion are invited to product reviews, typically up to 10 people, and every review is recorded and documented for transparency 17m7s.
• The materials, recording, action items, and ETAs are posted in a Slack channel, allowing teams to access the information they need 17m32s.
• Product reviews are not done well when teams don't know the most important questions to answer, which can be caught in the pre-read sent at least 24 hours in advance 19m20s.
• The pre-read is a Google doc that goes over the problem, components, and discussion topics, and everyone is expected to read it and add comments before the review 19m36s.
• There are four different types of product reviews: strategy review, roadmap review, launch review, and business review, each with its own focus and goals 18m1s.
• Strategy reviews go deep on the problem, product opportunity, and business case, while roadmap reviews focus on the execution plan, sequence, milestones, and goals 18m2s.
• Launch reviews look at all the things that need to come together for a successful launch, including experience and quality bar, and business reviews examine the financial performance and business levers 18m42s.
• The goal of product reviews is to have a productive discussion, and reading the pre-read in advance is crucial to achieving this goal 20m2s.

Balancing Open Debate with Directive Leadership 20m19s

• There are two different concepts: encouraging debate and the idea that "talk is cheap." Debate is incredibly important, but talk can also be expensive as it costs time that could be spent progressing towards goals and executing plans 20m48s.
• A culture of "strong opinions loosely held" is valuable, where individuals have a point of view and are willing to share it, but also remain open to new information and willing to change their opinion 21m17s.
• Having a strong point of view requires doing homework, developing expertise, and being willing to share that point of view, which can lead to debate and better outcomes 21m40s.
• Being open to new information and seeking it out is crucial in making better decisions, and it's not about being right, but about making the right decisions 22m21s.
• Talk can be expensive because it can lead to disillusionment if opinions are presented but not considered, and it's essential to be open to debate to avoid this 23m0s.
• Not being open to debate can result in missing out on valuable information and insights from team members, and it's essential to create an environment where people feel comfortable sharing their opinions 23m27s.
• Philosophizing and action-oriented decision-making are not mutually exclusive, and it's possible to balance both by making decisions quickly and iterating based on new information 24m26s.
• While whiteboard brainstorming sessions can be seen as useless, they can also be valuable for generating ideas and exploring concepts, and it's essential to strike a balance between philosophizing and action-oriented decision-making 24m5s.

What is Possibility Thinking? 24m40s

• Possibility thinking is an approach that encourages product leaders and organizations to pursue big ideas and take significant risks to achieve substantial growth, rather than solely focusing on small incremental gains 24m40s.
• This approach involves dreaming big, thinking big, and being willing to take on riskier and higher-reward ideas, as these are more likely to bring about step-change growth to a business 25m16s.
• To encourage big ideas in companies, leaders should set a clear strategy that allocates resources to both big ideas and optimizations, and communicate this strategy effectively to their teams 25m57s.
• Leaders must also be mindful of the incentives within their organization, recognizing and rewarding not only incremental gains but also people who take on bigger ideas, even if they fail 26m46s.
• Rewarding both types of achievements is crucial, as going after bigger ideas is often harder and more unpredictable than achieving incremental gains 27m20s.
• To overcome the challenges of pursuing bigger ideas, leaders must compensate for the fact that these endeavors are often more difficult and less reliable than achieving incremental gains 27m26s.

Lessons on How To Do Launching 27m31s

• To generate big ideas, it's helpful to personalize the thought process by imagining how different people, such as Mr Beast or Johnny IV, would approach the product, which can lead to multiple different answers and ideas with varying design aesthetics and shock value 27m32s.
• Launch strategy meetings often result in poorly executed product launches, and a successful launch is not just about releasing a working product, but rather it's the exception 27m58s.
• Typically, signals are gathered throughout the development process, and it becomes clear over time whether a product will be successful or not 28m18s.
• A second product should ideally be conceptualized one to two years before it's needed in the market, as it takes time to build a successful product 28m48s.
• For companies with a single successful product that has achieved product-market fit and is growing, it's essential to start thinking about introducing the next product one to two years in advance 29m5s.
• The time to start thinking about the next product is when the current product is going great, and growth is happening, usually about a year or two before the next product is needed 29m12s.

Balancing Resources Between Core Revenue & Future Innovations 29m23s

• Resource allocation for CPTO involves balancing between historical technical debt, existing revenue streams, and future innovations, with three main categories of investment: new products, existing products, and maintenance/internal productivity 29m38s.
• New products include high-risk, high-reward ideas and big bets, while existing products require optimization and step-change improvements to maintain quality 30m2s.
• Maintenance, also known as "keeping the lights on" (KLO), and internal productivity are essential for companies with multiple products and hundreds of millions in revenue 30m27s.
• Ideally, the allocation should be intentional, with 30-40% invested in existing products, 30-40% in new products, and 25-30% in maintenance and internal productivity 31m4s.
• Within the new products bucket, it's recommended to keep at least 5-10% of capacity for "planting new seeds" and exploring future innovations 31m20s.

Lessons on Hiring 31m31s

• Hiring is the most important aspect of a leader's role, and one of the biggest lessons is to hire people who are better, stronger, and smarter than you, as this will drive growth and success 31m36s.
• Mark Zuckerberg's advice is to hire people that you would want to report to, which emphasizes the importance of finding individuals who have the potential to excel and grow within the organization 31m50s.
• When hiring, it's essential to consider whether you would be willing to report to the candidate in the future, as this mindset helps to identify individuals with high potential and growth prospects 32m1s.
• Paying candidates more than yourself and being willing to report to them in the future demonstrates a commitment to hiring the best talent, regardless of their current level of experience 32m5s.
• For senior leadership positions, it's crucial to hire individuals who are better than you, as this will drive growth and success within the organization 32m32s.
• When hiring for lower-level positions, it's essential to focus on potential, rather than current abilities, as this will help to identify individuals who can grow and develop within the organization 32m45s.
• The key to hiring the best talent is to consider whether you can see yourself reporting to the candidate in the future, as this indicates that they have the potential to excel and grow within the organization 32m58s.

Hiring Process 33m17s

• The hiring process for the Facebook App Monetisation Team is a four-phase process, starting with the screening and exploration phase, which involves a couple of interviews with a talent acquisition partner to assess relevant experience and fit with current roles 33m19s.
• If the candidate passes the first phase, they move on to the exploration phase with a product leader, who digs deeper into motivation, relevant experience, and potential red flags 33m45s.
• The next phase is the functional Loop, which assesses the candidate's product sense and execution, including their ability to take an ambiguous problem and come up with a good solution 34m9s.
• The functional Loop includes two 45-minute interviews, one for product sense and one for execution, which tests the candidate's ability to set the right goals for the team and make decisions based on data 34m40s.
• If the candidate passes the functional Loop, they move on to the case study phase, which involves a take-home assignment that presents a set of problems the candidate would face if they joined the company 35m8s.
• The final phase is the leadership and drive phase, which includes a bu Riser interview that assesses the candidate's values and fit with the company's values 35m30s.
• After the final phase, the team debriefs and makes a decision on the candidate 35m45s.
• The hiring process can be lengthy, but it's designed to ensure the right candidate is selected, and it's possible to move faster if needed 36m10s.
• The case study phase was not initially a fan favorite, but it has proven to be a valuable tool in assessing a candidate's skills and fit with the company 36m14s.
• A lengthy case study, approximately 30 pages, was provided during the hiring process, which initially deterred the candidate but ultimately piqued their interest due to the challenging problems it presented 37m2s.
• The candidate is drawn to challenges and learning new things, which made the case study appealing and invested them in the opportunity 37m21s.
• Upon starting at the company, the candidate had to redesign the hiring process to make it more rigorous, which they believe is crucial for hiring the right people 37m47s.
• The original hiring process was kept due to its uniqueness and being part of the company's DNA, but it was modified to be more concise, taking no more than an hour to complete 38m8s.
• The revised process involves providing candidates with the task at least two days in advance, allowing them sufficient time to complete it without feeling rushed 38m21s.
• The task is designed to assess how candidates would tackle specific problems, and they are expected to return with their thoughts and solutions 38m34s.

Approaching Comp & Title Negotiations 38m38s

• When offering compensation and title, it's essential to negotiate, as it's part of the deal, and women typically don't negotiate as much as men 38m41s.
• Women may internalize the negotiation process too much and feel that it could reflect badly on their relationship with the person they're talking to, but this shouldn't be the case 39m12s.
• Title is not something that can typically be negotiated, as companies need consistency and clear mapping to levels from other companies, unless the company is very early-stage 39m35s.
• It's often possible to know if someone is not the right person for the job within a few weeks, but it can be challenging to let them go, especially in Europe where there's a probation period 40m4s.
• In Europe, the probation period allows companies to decide if an employee is a good fit, but this is not the case in the US, where employment is at-will 40m30s.
• Hiring in Europe can be more challenging due to a smaller talent pool, with maybe only one solid candidate for every 10-20 in the US, which can slow down the hiring process 41m8s.
• Despite the challenges, it's still possible to build an incredible company in Europe, but it may require more energy 41m36s.
• There are differences in work ethic and approaches to work between the US and Europe, with people in the US often feeling that their job is a bigger part of their identity 41m50s.
• This difference in identity can lead to people in the US putting in more effort and feeling more ownership of their work 42m6s.
• Entitlement is more prevalent among the younger generation across Europe and the US, particularly those who have had cushy jobs with many benefits and think that's the norm 42m17s.

Opinion on Remote Work 42m45s

• Research was conducted on location strategy when starting at Personio, and it was decided to continue hiring remotely due to access to better talent and faster hiring, despite potential risks that can be mitigated 42m45s.
• The benefits of in-person interactions, such as socializing and forming stronger relationships, can be mitigated by regularly bringing people together, which is done at least once a quarter at the team level 43m50s.
• With a high percentage of remote workers, meetings need to be intentional, and async collaboration is used as much as possible, with tools like Loom, to minimize unnecessary meetings 44m25s.
• Product reviews are not significantly worse when done remotely due to having a structured process in place 44m48s.
• Brainstorming and idea generation can be more challenging remotely, but this can be mitigated by quickly pinging team members for discussions and leaving time on the calendar for creative processes 45m3s.
• It's essential to work with various team members, not just direct reports, and to have a flexible schedule to accommodate spontaneous discussions and idea generation 45m32s.
• Leaving time on the calendar for creative processes and not overpacking it with meetings allows for quick discussions and idea generation throughout the day 45m48s.

Bull or Bear: Maria’s Outlook on Europe 46m0s

• Europe faces challenges in innovation due to limited access to talent, with the number one issue being the availability of skilled workers from countries like Thailand 46m8s.
• Companies in the US tend to prioritize initiative over process, whereas European companies often focus more on process, although there are exceptions 46m35s.
• In Europe, it is harder to fire people, and the process is often more amicable, which can impact a company's ability to adapt and innovate 46m51s.
• To thrive in Europe with a focus on initiative and minimal process, companies must be more intentional in their approach, as this is not the default mindset 46m44s.

Quick-Fire Round 47m2s

• A disagreement with a manager occurred when deciding whether to promote an employee, with the manager ultimately convincing that promotions should be lagging, not leading, and only given when an employee has consistently demonstrated success at the next level for a long period of time 47m4s.
• Premature promotions can be detrimental to employees, as they may struggle at the new level and receive bad ratings, making it difficult to recover 48m24s.
• To get promoted, one should start doing the work at the next level, taking responsibility, and showing they can do the job 49m9s.
• Founders make two common mistakes when hiring product teams: they don't hire the right person due to a lack of understanding of the role or how to vet candidates, and they don't know how to build a good product team from a structural perspective 49m22s.
• A good product team structure should include a mix of experienced and junior members, with senior members to train and guide the junior ones 50m10s.
• When starting a new role as a Chief Product Officer (CPO), it's essential to build context quickly, do a listening tour, and gain expertise in the company and the space being worked in, including spending time with customers and the finance team 50m28s.
• To become valuable in a business, one should use the product, study the competitors, and become an expert in the space, while also delivering results and making themselves valuable to their boss, team, and peers 50m49s.
• Two companies with impressive product strategies are Microsoft and Instacart, with Microsoft's CEO Satya Nadella making a successful bet on AI and Instacart's CEO Fidji Simo turning the company around and making it profitable during difficult times 51m13s.
• Fidji Simo's approach at Instacart is notable for its win-win mindset, as seen in the company's deal with Uber, which positions them better in restaurant delivery against competitors like DoorDash 52m11s.
• Instacart is also investing in healthy eating initiatives for low-income communities, demonstrating Fidji Simo's ability as an operator and her commitment to making a positive impact 52m28s.