Marc Dunkelman on Community, Polarization, and Why Nothing Works

Introduction to Polarization and Mark Dunkelman's Background

• The discussion begins with an introduction to the topic of polarization, and Mark Dunkelman is introduced as the author of two books, "The Vanishing Neighbor" and "Why Nothing Works: Who Killed Progress and How to Bring It Back", with the goal of exploring the challenge of leading in divisive times 10s.
• Mark Dunkelman shares his personal experience of moving to Washington after college, where he expected to find camaraderie between parties, but instead found a high degree of tension and vitriol, with people being incentivized to be more divisive in public, despite getting along across party lines in private 2m6s.
• The public is seen as driving the behavior of leaders through the system of politics, with voters instructing their representatives to be more angry and resistant to the other side, rather than seeking common ground and working through differences 4m42s.
• The argument is made that the failure to understand people who live and work nearby has led to a demand for complete fealty to one ideology or the other from elected representatives, contributing to the vitriolic nature of politics 6m15s.

Personal Experience and Observations on Political Tension

• The cause of this phenomenon is attributed to retreating into homogeneous social circles, where there is less interaction with people who disagree, and this trend is thought to have worsened since 2014 8m30s.
• The concept of social universes is introduced, with people's social connections being visualized as a series of rings, from intimate contacts to acquaintances, and the middle rings being people who are known well enough to ask about substantive topics, but are not close friends 10m50s.
• The concept of a middle ring relationship refers to a type of connection that is familiar but not intimate, such as knowing someone's family struggles or personal issues, and this type of relationship has become less prevalent in American society over the last century 10s.

Public Influence on Political Behavior

• In the past, people had thicker middle rings, meaning they were more connected to those who were familiar but not intimate, whereas today, social capital is invested more in the innermost ring, consisting of close contacts, and the outermost ring, consisting of people who share common interests but are not well-known 1m20s.
• The collapse of the middle ring is driven by the opportunity to be in constant touch with inner ring contacts, such as through texting or social media, which did not exist in the past, allowing people to invest more time in inner ring relationships 4m30s.
• The middle ring is unique in that it allows people to meet others with different points of view, such as at a PTA meeting, and develop relationships that help them understand different perspectives, which is less common in inner or outer ring connections 6m10s.

Social Homogeneity and the Decline of Middle Ring Relationships

• The ability to be in touch with people who share common interests, such as a favorite football team, has also increased with the rise of social media, making it easier to connect with like-minded individuals, but this has also contributed to the decline of middle ring relationships 10m30s.
• The shift in social capital investment has resulted in people being more closely connected to those in their inner ring, such as family and close friends, and those in their outer ring, such as online communities, but less connected to those in their middle ring, such as acquaintances and neighbors 12m0s.
• The increased use of technology for inner and outer ring relationships can be a social capital time suck, leaving less time for middle-ring relationships, such as attending PTA meetings or bowling leagues, which require more effort to maintain 10s.
• The opportunity to connect with others more frequently through technology may also contribute to narcissism, as people seek out those who share their views and proclivities, making it uncomfortable to interact with those who have differing opinions, such as voting for a different presidential candidate 1m42s.
• Middle-ring relationships are more demanding and require navigating disagreements, which can be challenging, leading people to allow these relationships to atrophy over time 2m6s.
• The decline of middle-ring relationships is reflected in people's social choices, as they prioritize their inner circle and outer circle connections, which are less demanding 3m10s.

Impact of Technology on Social Capital and Relationships

• The way people behave and make themselves comfortable in their social choices is a key factor in the decline of middle-ring relationships, and it is uncertain whether this will change 4m20s.
• The book "Why Nothing Works" discusses how America has changed since the 1960s and 1970s, particularly in terms of progressivism and the building of big institutions, which have had both positive and negative impacts on communities 5m30s.
• The decline of powerful figures, such as Robert Moses and Richard Daley, who once controlled society, has led to a shift in power dynamics, with rules, processes, and rights now superseding the prerogative of establishment figures 7m10s.
• It is now difficult to imagine a world with a figure like Robert Moses, who once had significant control over New York City, and it is unlikely that such a figure would emerge again 8m40s.

Generational Shifts and the Future of Community

• The ability of Robert Moses to build a highway through the South Bronx in the 1950s, despite opposition and significant environmental and social consequences, is noted as a reflection of what can no longer be achieved quickly due to current societal dynamics 10s.
• There is a lack of confidence in predicting the future, given the significant changes that have occurred over the last 30 to 40 years, and the difficulty in imagining where society will be in another 50 years, particularly with regards to social relations and the differing proclivities of millennials and Gen Zers 2m6s.
• The baby boomer generation, which initially favored coming together and breaking down barriers, ultimately became more atomistic over the course of their lives, with the ties that bound communities together dissipating, and people no longer knowing their neighbors 4m6s.
• It is possible that future generations may be desperate to find real community among their geographical neighbors, and that changes in housing and urban development, such as a shift towards more vertical housing, could lead to the reformation of community bonds 6m40s.

Freedom, Control, and the Balance of Power

• The concept of freedom is connected to the reduction of strictures and the power of others to control individual lives, but this also raises questions about who gets to make decisions at a large level in society, and how to balance the desire for individual control with the need for centralized decision-making 8m30s.
• The idea of "Who Killed Progress" is introduced, which involves analyzing the desire for people to have control over their own outcomes and the need for centralized decision-making, with the goal of unlocking valuable lessons from different academic communities and finding a way to bring back progress 10m40s.
• A personal anecdote is shared about the decision-making process within a family, where the possibility of going to dinner is discussed, and this is used as a starting point to explore the complexities of decision-making and the need to find a balance between individual desires and collective needs 12m10s.

Challenges of Decision-Making in Families and Society

• The decision-making process in a family can be complex, as seen in the example of a family of four trying to decide where to have dinner, with each member having different opinions and preferences, such as a nine-year-old who only wants to eat fried chicken sandwiches and a six-year-old who thinks her friend ate donuts for dinner 10s.
• This dilemma is not unique to families, as businesses, communities, churches, and countries also face similar challenges in making decisions that satisfy everyone, and there is no perfect solution that can accommodate all opinions and preferences 2m6s.
• The example of Robert Moses' decision to build the Cross Bronx Expressway to address the lack of a rail line between New Jersey and Long Island is cited, which had both benefits, such as reducing truck traffic in Midtown Manhattan, and significant costs, including the displacement of communities and urban decay in the South Bronx 4m37s.
• The construction of the Cross Bronx Expressway is widely regarded as a mistake, with many people, including the author, sharing this view after reading Robert Caro's book "The Power Broker", which highlights the negative consequences of the project 8m10s.
• The question of how to resolve differences in opinion and make decisions that balance competing interests is a fundamental challenge in public life, and it is rare for conversations about past decisions to consider alternative scenarios and their potential outcomes, such as what would have happened if the Cross Bronx Expressway had not been built 10m40s.

Case Study: The Cross Bronx Expressway and Decision-Making in Public Policy

• The example of Congressman Jerry Nadler's advocacy for a rail line that would have allowed goods to be transported across New York Harbor under a tunnel is mentioned as a potential alternative solution that could have been explored 12m10s.
• The process of making decisions in government is different from that in business, where a CEO can choose between different views or find a way to bring teams to a single point of agreement, and this is a tricky business that different societies handle differently 10s.
• In the public realm of American life, there is a struggle to figure out the proper balance between the ability of someone to choose and the ability of ordinary people to have some influence, with different realms of American society handling it differently 1m5s.
• The idea of bringing back the ability to build things and get beyond gridlock is discussed, with the example of Robert Moses, who dictated how things would run, being at one end of the spectrum, and at the other end, allowing every community that might be impacted by a project to have a veto process 2m6s.
• The phrase "everyone should have a voice, but no one should have a veto" is used to describe the ideal process, which balances the extremes of dictatorial systems and systems where all power is transferred to anyone who says no 3m30s.
• The example of the Cross Bronx Expressway, built by Robert Moses, is given as an example of a terrible route due to a lack of listening to other voices, and the example of a high-speed rail line from LA to San Francisco is given as an example of a project being thwarted due to the veto power of individual communities 4m20s.
• The book makes the case for looking at the world of public policy through the lens of finding a balance between different voices and veto power, and suggests that once this spectrum is understood, honest disagreements about how to come to a balance can be had 6m10s.

The Spectrum of Decision-Making and the Need for Balance

• The problem of legitimate and heartfelt differences about how public policy should be resolved is discussed, and the need for a real conversation and trade-off of differences is emphasized, rather than relying on extremes such as giving everybody what they want or ignoring community impacts 8m0s.
• The idea that neither extreme, whether it be giving everyone a veto or ignoring community impacts, is right, and that a way needs to be found to have a real conversation and make a decision, is emphasized 9m40s.
• The argument is that progressives can learn from Trump's approach to getting things done, as he is seen as someone who takes action and makes changes, regardless of whether people agree with him or not, and this perception is in contrast to the progressive approach, which often focuses on following the rules and process 10s.

Comparing Progressive and Trumpian Approaches to Governance

• Trump's approach to issues like immigration and foreign policy is seen as dynamic, with him taking actions such as firing people, eliminating USAID, or sequestering funding, which may not be in line with progressive values, but is perceived as effective in achieving his goals 1m20s.
• The progressive response to Trump's actions is often focused on whether he followed the rules, such as seeking congressional approval for military actions, rather than considering the potential outcomes or benefits of his actions 2m6s.
• The example of the Biden administration's effort to spend $7.5 billion on electric vehicle chargers is given, which fell apart due to the complexities of using public dollars to build private infrastructure, and the need to follow rules and processes, which is contrasted with Trump's more direct approach 4m30s.
• The point is made that while progressives should follow the law and respect the process, they can also learn from Trump's willingness to push the envelope and prioritize outcomes over process, as seen in historical examples such as the federal government's efforts to wire up the Tennessee Valley in the 1930s 8m30s.
• The idea is not that progressives should ignore the law or disregard the process, but rather that they should consider the importance of achieving their goals and being effective, while also respecting the rules and institutions that are in place 10m0s.

Historical Examples of Effective Governance and Bureaucracy

• The federal government created a bureaucracy to extend wires and poles to subsistence farmers living in poverty, which is different from the current attempt to build EV chargers, and this was achieved through authorities like the Tennessee Valley Authority, led by David Lilienthal, who had the power to make significant changes without much opposition 10s.
• The idea of a philosopher king, someone who is trusted and has the power to make decisions without being hindered by rules, is discussed, and it is wondered if such a system requires this kind of leadership to function effectively 42s.
• The question of whether the ends justify the means is raised, and it is argued that in a diverse society, the means, or the rules, are what hold everything together, and that bypassing these rules can lead to breakdown, and this is a concern in the context of leaders like Trump who seem to disregard the rules 2m6s.

Rules, Progress, and the Need for Reform

• The importance of following the rules is acknowledged, but it is also argued that the rules need to be updated to allow the government to deliver solutions to various problems, and that the current rules can be a barrier to progress, as seen in examples like the California high-speed rail project 4m30s.
• The need for the rules to be delivering for the people is emphasized, and it is suggested that not enough time is spent thinking about whether the current rules are actually working for the people who need them to, and that this is a concern that needs to be addressed by progressives 6m40s.
• The goal is to find a balance where rules allow for actions that serve the people they are intended to serve, and this balance is hoped to be achieved 10s.

Conclusion and Gratitude

• Marc Dunkelman expressed appreciation for the opportunity to participate in the conversation and reach the audience 42s.