Marc Benioff, Salesforce Founder: Why Salesforce Isn't Hiring Software Engineers | E1236

Intro 0s

• Salesforce is currently working on its business plan for 2025 and has decided not to add more software engineers next year due to increased productivity with AI technology, specifically Agent Force, which has resulted in a 30% increase in engineering velocity 7s.
• The company will also have fewer support engineers next year due to the implementation of an agentic layer and the rapid commodification of large language models 20s.
• The conversation is an interview between the host and Marc Benioff, the founder of Salesforce, who is excited to be on the show for the second time 45s.
• Marc Benioff mentions that he has his two dogs with him during the interview and hopes they won't start barking 1m0s.
• The host mentions that he has interviewed many VCs and that Marc Benioff's thoughts on the matter make more sense than what they say 1m9s.
• Marc Benioff is asked about his thoughts on the changing importance of a CEO, but the conversation is interrupted by a lighthearted exchange about Marc Benioff's interest in podcasts and the host being his first 1m28s.
• Marc Benioff jokingly mentions that the host will always be his first, and the host expresses pride in being his first interview 1m33s.

The Importance of a CEO’s Personal Brand 1m43s

• A CEO's personal brand is crucial in today's world, and listening to podcasts is one way to understand its importance 1m46s.
• Despite enjoying podcasts, there's a realization that learning how to effectively participate in one is necessary, including knowing how to capture people's attention and say the right things 2m6s.
• Many friends who are good at podcasting are scripted and well-prepared, which can make a significant difference in their performance 2m32s.
• The key to a successful podcast is a combination of art and science, where the art involves telling a story and making the audience feel like they're part of the journey 2m55s.
• The science aspect of podcasting involves understanding the importance of resonance with the consumer and learning, and combining these two elements can create a magical experience 3m5s.
• The goal is to bring the audience into the early moments of a company's journey, such as the "Salesforce magic," and make them feel like they're a part of it 3m1s.

Embracing Pain & Suffering 3m22s

• A tweet was posted referencing a conversation between Jensen and Patrick Collison, where Jensen stated that nothing great is achieved without pain and suffering, and the author wished upon the recipient "plenty of pain and suffering" 3m26s.
• The phrase "no mud, no Lotus" originated from one of the author's teachers and good friends, Tikn Han, who brought mindfulness to the West and taught the author how to meditate 3m50s.
• Tikn Han's phrase "no mud, no Lotus" means that one must go through difficulty and suffering to achieve beauty and love, which is an important part of the author's life and mindset 4m28s.
• The author practices mindfulness and meditation daily to clear their mind and focus on their breath amidst difficult situations 4m42s.
• A recent example of pain and suffering leading to great outcomes was Salesforce's journey over the past two years, where the company faced a difficult moment with unusual resignations and financial issues 5m56s.
• In response, the company made significant changes, including rewriting their product, creating new products, and rebuilding their financial model, which ultimately resulted in a financial transformation and the introduction of a new AI product 6m22s.
• The company's stock has tripled over the past two years, and they have achieved a level of customer success never seen before, exemplifying the concept of "no mud, no Lotus" 7m5s.

Can Salesforce Thrive in the AI Era with Agent Force? 7m14s

• Salesforce is the number one Enterprise AI supplier in the world, delivering AI at scale to more companies globally than any other company, with over two trillion Enterprise transactions this week 7m42s.
• The company has developed the first scaled, secure, and trusted Enterprise agentic platform, called Agent Force, which is being used by companies like Heathrow Airport to deploy agents and improve customer experience 8m3s.
• Heathrow Airport is using Agent Force to build an agentic layer around the airport, providing customers with a seamless experience from the beginning to the end of their journey 8m32s.
• The next version of Agent Force, Agent Force 20, is set to be announced on December 17th and will feature new capabilities, including the automation of every customer touch point 9m25s.
• Salesforce's platform is unique in that it integrates multiple components, including Sales Cloud, Service Cloud, Marketing Cloud, Commerce Cloud, and Analytics, into one piece of code, allowing for seamless data sharing and access 10m17s.
• The company's data Cloud, which is the amalgamation of all customer data, is a key component of the platform, providing access to over 230 petabytes of data and metadata, which is essential for accurate Enterprise AI 10m39s.
• The integration of data, metadata, and workflow is critical for achieving high accuracy and low hallucination in Enterprise AI, and Salesforce's platform is well-positioned to deliver this 10m35s.

Salesforce’s Biggest Challenge in AI Dominance 10m53s

• Salesforce's biggest challenge in achieving AI dominance is to demonstrate the value of its Agent Force to customers, which was shipped on October 25th and has already seen 200 deals, with thousands more expected in the current quarter 10m54s.
• The goal is to show each customer the "magic" of Agent Force and its potential to provide tremendous value, with Salesforce itself serving as an example after turning on a new 100% agent-based support infrastructure 11m21s.
• This new infrastructure has allowed Salesforce to rebalance its headcount and create a digital workforce alongside its human workforce, with digital labor now playing a key role in the company 11m43s.
• The challenge lies in explaining this new concept to every single company, as it represents a new horizon for business and the introduction of digital labor for the first time 11m58s.
• This development is considered the most exciting thing to happen to business, as it brings digital labor into the mix and has the potential to revolutionize the way companies operate 12m8s.

Will Salesforce Have More or Less Employees in 5 Years? 12m14s

• Salesforce is expected to have more employees in 5 years, with the company currently planning for 2025 and anticipating growth 12m20s.
• The company will not be adding more software engineers next year due to increased productivity from AI technology, such as Agent Force, which has improved engineering velocity by over 30% 12m33s.
• As a result of the increased productivity, Salesforce will have fewer support engineers next year due to the implementation of an agentic layer 12m52s.
• However, the company plans to add 1 to 2,000 more salespeople in the short term to effectively communicate the value of AI to customers 13m5s.

How Will Digital Labor Impact SaaS Pricing Models? 13m9s

• The integration of digital labor in SaaS is changing pricing models, with a shift from per-user pricing for humans to per-conversation pricing for digital agents, with a starting price of around $2 per conversation that can be negotiated based on volume for customers 13m29s.
• The current pricing model for digital labor is consumption-based, charging per conversation, and this model is expected to continue as digital labor becomes more prevalent 13m25s.
• The growth rate and maturation of large language models (LLMs) are slowing down as they become commoditized, with many companies, including Salesforce, building their own LLMs, but also leveraging others in the industry 15m7s.
• Salesforce has a strong AI team and has developed several top models in the industry, but also uses and invests in other models, including those from companies like Anthropic and MSTR, and has a selection of capabilities to choose from depending on the task at hand 15m38s.
• The future of AI is expected to be a world of many models, where users can choose from different models for different use cases, and this is already possible with the availability of many AI apps on mobile devices 16m29s.
• The commoditization of LLMs is not unusual in the history of AI, where new models and technologies emerge, become popular, and then become commoditized, leading to a wait for the next innovation 14m20s.
• Salesforce has had internal discussions about whether to invest in building its own LLMs or leveraging others, and has decided to do both, using its own models while also investing in and using other models in the industry 15m15s.
• The use of multiple models for different tasks is expected to continue, with users choosing the best model for the task at hand, and this is already possible with the availability of many AI apps and models 16m17s.
• The founder of Salesforce has personally invested in several AI companies, including U.com, which offers an incredible model and set of capabilities, and is used for research and personal activities 16m35s.

Which AI Company Offers the Best Investment Opportunity? 17m18s

• The question of which AI company offers the best investment opportunity is posed, with options including Open AI at $160, Anthropic at $160, and X.C at $50 17m18s.
• It is suggested that none of these companies may be a good investment at the moment, as they are all developing similar products and technologies 17m31s.
• The current state of the AI industry is seen as a moment where each company needs to differentiate itself and become its own unique entity, rather than being a generic company 17m49s.
• To succeed, AI companies need to decide on a specific vertical or specialty to focus on, rather than trying to be a general-purpose company 17m57s.
• The idea that different AI models will be better suited to different industries is seen as an area where these models will start to excel 18m12s.
• The example of Perplexity, which is trying to be unique in the financial services industry, is given as an illustration of this trend 18m5s.

The Biggest Question About AI & Salesforce’s Future 18m20s

• The biggest question about AI and Salesforce's future is how to explain the huge value that customers can get from Agent Force, which is a top priority for the company 18m23s.
• The company is moving its whole support infrastructure to the Genic platform, and the whole sales platform will also be moved to the Genic platform to show customers what is possible 18m51s.
• The company is in a new world in terms of what is possible today, and customers do not understand this and what it can mean for them 19m9s.
• The top focus is Agent Force, and the second focus is finding fuel in the company to drive the first, which includes expanding distribution 19m19s.
• The fuel will be found by using Agent Force, which will let the company rebalance its workforce, moving people from support to sales or other functions 19m39s.
• The company has 9,000 people in support today, but it will not have as many people in support in the future, as Agent Force will enable the company to move more people into other functions 19m45s.
• Some employees will be moved to new opportunities, and the company has a lot of growth happening, providing opportunities for employees to be moved 20m17s.
• Even in the layoffs that happened two years ago, the company has hired a lot of those employees back into the company 20m29s.
• The layoffs were a necessary tool for the company to be restructured and prepare for the future, and it was a difficult decision, but sometimes it's necessary for CEOs to make tough decisions 20m56s.

Salesforce’s Top Strategic Decisions & Lessons 21m49s

• The two most strategic decisions made at Salesforce that worked out were influenced by lessons learned from other experiences and relationships, including a meeting with Steve Jobs 21m50s.
• Steve Jobs advised focusing on one thing at a time, which had a significant impact on decision-making at Salesforce, leading to a focus on Agent Force 23m9s.
• The advice to focus on one thing was difficult to implement as a leader, as it required finding ways to make other divisions feel important while prioritizing Agent Force 23m36s.
• To address this challenge, conversations with other organizations, such as the Marketing Cloud and Commerce Cloud, were focused on how they could integrate Agent Force and AI to improve their products 24m10s.
• The goal was to transform these products into "agent-first" versions, showcasing the future of these technologies and their potential to transform customers 24m26s.
• At Salesforce, all 75,000 employees, tens of thousands of salespeople, and 135,000 customers needed to be brought up to speed on the possibilities of Agent Force and its breakthroughs 24m40s.
• The focus on Agent Force was prioritized over discussing other Salesforce products, with the aim of making it the central focus of the company's efforts 23m28s.

Salesforce’s Biggest Mistake 24m54s

• The most important thing for CEOs is to cultivate a "beginner's mind," being ready to adapt to constant changes in technology, politics, and economics, and having an open mind to new possibilities 25m17s.
• The concept of a "beginner's mind" is also known as "shoshin" in Japanese, which means having a mind that is open to new experiences and knowledge 25m40s.
• Before the Dreamforce conference, the company was preparing a big demo for Gucci, but after receiving customer feedback on Agent Force, the company pivoted and changed its focus to Agent Force 26m53s.
• The company delivered Agent Force to the first five customers, including companies like Wy, Open Table, ADP, and Disney, and received positive feedback 26m59s.
• The company then pivoted and changed its messaging for Dreamforce to focus on Agent Force, and delivered the product on October 24th 27m35s.
• In the first five days of the quarter, the company closed about 200 Agent Force deals, and expects to do thousands more in the next quarter 28m9s.
• The key to success is not only cultivating a beginner's mind but also trusting oneself to make big decisions and focus on one thing 28m22s.
• The company's pivot to Agent Force was a result of trusting the customer feedback and hitting the "Steve Jobs button" to focus on one thing 28m26s.
• The company's AI-powered assistant, Astro, was also rebranded as Agent Astro to reflect the company's new focus on Agent Force 28m36s.
• Being the CEO of a large company like Salesforce requires being ready for exhaustive moments, such as earnings, Dreamforce, and product launches, and one must be prepared to leave it all on the field to achieve success 29m5s.
• As the CEO, it is essential to constantly ask oneself if everything necessary is being done to make the company successful, and this question should be asked every single day 29m30s.
• The role of a CEO is not just about being present at events but also about being prepared to put in the effort required to make the company successful, and this can be exhausting 29m1s.
• After 25 years of being the CEO of Salesforce, growing the company from an idea to $38 billion in revenue, it is clear that being ready to leave it all on the field each and every moment is crucial to achieving success 30m17s.
• The CEO must be prepared to put everything behind them and move forward, as stated by Jensen, to continue growing and achieving the company's goals 30m25s.

Looking Back, Would Marc Does It Again? 30m27s

• If Marc Benioff had known how hard it was going to be to build Salesforce, he wouldn't have done it, considering the company's current $38 billion in revenue 30m28s.
• David Kirk, who led the creation of the GPU for Jensen at Nvidia, is an example of someone who successfully pivoted after achieving great success, as he retired and became the chairman of his kids' school and invested in his community 30m40s.
• Jensen, the CEO of Nvidia, is another example of a successful pivot, as he shifted his company's focus to deep learning in 2013, recognizing the potential of the technology and the GPU's suitability for it 31m42s.
• Unlike Jensen, Marc Benioff did not pivot Salesforce entirely around deep learning, although he did incorporate it into the company 31m54s.
• Jensen's pivot was a hard one, and he deserves credit for having the vision and insight to make such a significant change, which ultimately led to Nvidia being ready to support Open AI when it started 32m1s.
• The ability to pivot successfully requires a beginner's mind and the willingness to leave everything behind and start anew, which can be challenging for companies stuck in a cycle of constant activity 32m40s.
• It's essential for companies to slow down, break the cycle, and get back into the present moment to realize what they need to achieve their greatest success and identify the values that will guide them 33m1s.

Opinion on Big Tech Was Coerced into Censorship 33m22s

• A conversation between Mark Andreessen and Joe Rogan was mentioned, where Mark Andreessen stated that big tech companies didn't just cave to censorship, but were coerced, especially by the government 33m33s.
• The government's involvement in social media companies' operations was revealed in the conversation, which included information about banking and social media 33m52s.
• The idea that big tech companies were coerced into censorship was surprising, and it's not something that has been seen in the company being discussed 34m13s.
• The company almost bought Twitter, which would have given insight into the government's involvement with big consumer platforms 34m24s.
• The reason for wanting to buy Twitter was not related to censorship, but rather because it was seen as a great vehicle for distributing content and applications 34m45s.
• The idea was to build a tool to create apps that could run in Twitter frames, similar to the hypercard technology model 35m24s.
• The goal was to build an app store and deliver apps in frames, which is why the company was interested in Twitter 35m43s.
• The company's founder has always been interested in application development and deployment, starting from a young age 35m54s.
• The founder's first product was a how-to-juggle software, and they went on to write software adventure games and automated simulations 35m58s.
• The company's founder is excited about Elon and Doge because they believe in the importance of fiscal responsibility, both in companies and countries 36m38s.
• The founder hopes that the United States will get back to having a balanced budget and that fiscal responsibility will become a bipartisan issue 36m55s.

Quick-Fire Round 37m7s

• The favorite consumer brand is Louis Vuitton, due to its luxurious experience both online and in-store, and also because it is a Salesforce customer, allowing for constant product testing 37m10s.
• In the last 12 months, there has been a change of mind regarding the impact of AI on customers, with the breakthrough of Agent Force being more powerful and happening more quickly than expected 37m36s.
• Agents need to become multimodal in the future, moving beyond their current mostly text-based capabilities to provide a more comprehensive experience 38m8s.
• The most concerning issue is the potential dark side of AI, emphasizing the need for education on both the good and bad aspects of the technology 38m27s.
• It is unlikely that Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) will be achieved by 2025, but rather the maturation and commoditization of Large Language Models (LLMs) is expected 39m17s.
• A question that is rarely asked is how businesses can be used for good, with Salesforce being a prime example of a company that has made a significant impact through its philanthropic efforts, including giving away about $1 billion and running 50,000 nonprofits for free on its service 39m50s.